Star Wars

    Share
    avatar
    Brickartist
    KOTBR Admin
    and Founder

    KOTBR Admin  and Founder

    Posts : 69
    Join date : 2011-03-28

    Star Wars

    Post  Brickartist on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:00 pm

    This is a general discussion thread for the thing we love so much-Star Wars. All discussion of it should go here. Smiling


    Last edited by Blokdoctor on Sat May 07, 2011 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Updated emoticons)
    avatar
    Blokdoctor
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 22
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : Qo'noS

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Blokdoctor on Sat May 07, 2011 12:12 am

    Since we changed the emoticon codes, I updated your post to make it display properly. Smiling
    avatar
    Fallenangel
    Reference Moderator
    Reference Moderator

    Posts : 160
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : 미국

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Fallenangel on Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:10 am

    FBTB Admin dWhisper wrote:You see this evil empire, but the only thing that ever shows them as evil (and it certainly was a pretty big evil) was the destruction of Alderran. Otherwise, what did they really do? You only have people telling you they hate the empire, and never explaining why. You see a large military force, and some pretty messed up leadership structures, but that's it. It seems like outside the Rebels constantly attacking, was a relatively ordered place.

    But it could be argued that the oppression of the Empire is implied through the grandeur of its military. Even if the land over which you reign spans an entire galaxy, building mile-long warships and a battlestation the size of a small moon suggests that resources are grossly misallocated. Wouldn't it be possible that Sienar is cranking out TIEs at the speed of light while thousands of systems starve?

    The same could perhaps be said for the Alliance. The grandeur of the Mon Calamari luxury liners-turned-warships might suggest that the inhabitants of Dac lived a more prosperous and enjoyable life prior to the rise of the Empire. What do you think?


    _________________
    "I'll be honest here; your criticism is typically condescending and unpleasant.  It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, but your comments can hardly be considered constructive.  You are constantly knocking into others for failing to achieve perfection and are overtly negative about work which is not yours."
      -blueandwhite
    avatar
    Blokdoctor
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 22
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : Qo'noS

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Blokdoctor on Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:53 am

    Fallenangel wrote:
    But it could be argued that the oppression of the Empire is implied through the grandeur of its military. Even if the land over which you reign spans an entire galaxy, building mile-long warships and a battlestation the size of a small moon suggests that resources are grossly misallocated. Wouldn't it be possible that Sienar is cranking out TIEs at the speed of light while thousands of systems starve?
    Though with a good portion of the known galaxy at its disposal, the Empire could easily draw resources from uninhabited systems, while creating jobs (albeit low-paying jobs most likely with bad living and working conditions) for sentients (primarily humans, of course, given the Empire's xenophobia) from smaller systems.

    Though of course, what's shown in the OT is shown entirely for the purposes of telling the story. We don't need to know how the Empire is fed or where it gets its metals from.

    And remember, it's not meant to be realistic:







    _________________
    ~Blokdoctor
    Spokesperson of radicalBricks and Brickdoctor
    avatar
    Triangle Man
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2011-08-09
    Location : Ireland

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Triangle Man on Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:13 am

    Fallenangel wrote:But it could be argued that the oppression of the Empire is implied through the grandeur of its military. Even if the land over which you reign spans an entire galaxy, building mile-long warships and a battlestation the size of a small moon suggests that resources are grossly misallocated. Wouldn't it be possible that Sienar is cranking out TIEs at the speed of light while thousands of systems starve?

    Not so. The large Imperial military is a relic of the Republic from the clone wars. The upper leadership of the Empire may be corrupt but the majority of the officers will be fail and just ex Republic officers. Also we have no proof that anywhere is poor in the Empire as all OT planets are backwards and out of the way, we never see wealthy planets like The Naboo or Galactic City for more than a few seconds.


    Last edited by Fallenangel on Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed BBCode to enhance readability)
    avatar
    Blokdoctor
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 22
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : Qo'noS

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Blokdoctor on Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:46 am

    Triangle Man wrote:
    Not so. The large Imperial military is a relic of the Republic from the clone wars. The upper leadership of the Empire may be corrupt but the majority of the officers will be fail and just ex Republic officers. Also we have no proof that anywhere is poor in the Empire as all OT planets are backwards and out of the way, we never see wealthy planets like The Naboo or Galactic City for more than a few seconds.
    The large army academies like Carida didn't ever stop producing men. The Empire continued to recruit soldiers, officers, pilots, etc., and probably in greater numbers than the Republic, who relied heavily on the clones. Quite a few officers began their careers and rose through the ranks during the reign of the Empire, including notable men such as Firmus Piett, Maximilian Veers, and Soontir Fel.


    _________________
    ~Blokdoctor
    Spokesperson of radicalBricks and Brickdoctor
    avatar
    Triangle Man
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2011-08-09
    Location : Ireland

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Triangle Man on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:20 am

    Blokdoctor wrote:
    The large army academies like Carida didn't ever stop producing men. The Empire continued to recruit soldiers, officers, pilots, etc., and probably in greater numbers than the Republic, who relied heavily on the clones. Quite a few officers began their careers and rose through the ranks during the reign of the Empire, including notable men such as Firmus Piett, Maximilian Veers, and Soontir Fel.

    I agree that the Empire was a lot mor militristic than Republic, however the presance of a large military isan't realy a show of 'Evilness' as such, more like power, remeber the Empire was born form the fire and therefor will live in the flames, to prevent another Clone wars like split in the Empire.


    Last edited by Fallenangel on Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed BBCode to enhance readability)
    avatar
    Blokdoctor
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 22
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : Qo'noS

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Blokdoctor on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:24 am

    Triangle Man wrote:
    I agree that the Empire was a lot mor militristic than Republic, however the presance of a large military isan't realy a show of 'Evilness' as such, more like power, remeber the Empire was born form the fire and therefor will live in the flames, to prevent another Clone wars like split in the Empire.
    Actually, my point there was that the majority of the Imperial Armed Forces probably were not ex-Republic soldiers.


    _________________
    ~Blokdoctor
    Spokesperson of radicalBricks and Brickdoctor
    avatar
    Triangle Man
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2011-08-09
    Location : Ireland

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Triangle Man on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:28 am

    Blokdoctor wrote:
    Actually, my point there was that the majority of the Imperial Armed Forces probably were not ex-Republic soldiers.

    Ah I see. So it could be that the Empire attracted more ruthless top brass like Veers than the Republic did, however it did still have other officers like Yuralin.


    Last edited by Fallenangel on Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed BBCode to enhance readability)
    avatar
    Blokdoctor
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 22
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : Qo'noS

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Blokdoctor on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:32 am

    Triangle Man wrote:
    Ah I see. So it could be that the Empire attracted more ruthless top brass like Veers than the Republic did, however it did still have other officers like Yuralin.
    You do also have to remember, though, that officers like Yularin who were ex-Republic were mostly the older men who sat in offices and discussed military actions, without doing much of the fighting, so the Empire would have to recruit lots of their own men. The Imperial military was probably not a relic of the Clone Wars. It was larger and more technologically advanced.


    _________________
    ~Blokdoctor
    Spokesperson of radicalBricks and Brickdoctor
    avatar
    Fallenangel
    Reference Moderator
    Reference Moderator

    Posts : 160
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : 미국

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Fallenangel on Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:13 pm

    Blokdoctor wrote: You do also have to remember, though, that officers like Yularin who were ex-Republic were mostly the older men who sat in offices and discussed military actions, without doing much of the fighting, so the Empire would have to recruit lots of their own men. The Imperial military was probably not a relic of the Clone Wars. It was larger and more technologically advanced.

    Furthermore, The Empire adopted a government run by fear rather than the more democratic process of the Old Republic*, something that is reflected in the fact that Imperial military craft like the AT-AT and the TIE/ln, while not as efficient or practical as their predecessors, were effective tools of intimidation.

    *Forget the Ruusan Reformation.


    _________________
    "I'll be honest here; your criticism is typically condescending and unpleasant.  It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, but your comments can hardly be considered constructive.  You are constantly knocking into others for failing to achieve perfection and are overtly negative about work which is not yours."
      -blueandwhite
    avatar
    Blokdoctor
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 22
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : Qo'noS

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Blokdoctor on Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:48 pm

    Fallenangel wrote:
    Furthermore, The Empire adopted a government run by fear rather than the more democratic process of the Old Republic*, something that is reflected in the fact that Imperial military craft like the AT-AT and the TIE/ln, while not as efficient or practical as their predecessors, were effective tools of intimidation.

    *Forget the Ruusan Reformation.
    Not really. I think the TIE/ln was an effective starfighter - certainly just as effective as the Alpha-3.


    _________________
    ~Blokdoctor
    Spokesperson of radicalBricks and Brickdoctor
    avatar
    Fallenangel
    Reference Moderator
    Reference Moderator

    Posts : 160
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : 미국

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Fallenangel on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:06 am

    Blokdoctor wrote: Not really. I think the TIE/ln was an effective starfighter - certainly just as effective as the Alpha-3.

    So my entire point is wrong? Confused

    Maybe "effective" isn't the best word - I was thinking of the fact that the Empire relied on a very basic 'cookie-cutter' design, lacking shields or a hyperdrive (though I suppose the Alpha-3 performs only slightly better in this aspect). As for the AT-AT, typical land vehicles are very low to the ground for stability... and to protect vulnerable undersides.


    _________________
    "I'll be honest here; your criticism is typically condescending and unpleasant.  It's one thing to offer constructive criticism, but your comments can hardly be considered constructive.  You are constantly knocking into others for failing to achieve perfection and are overtly negative about work which is not yours."
      -blueandwhite
    avatar
    Blokdoctor
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 22
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : Qo'noS

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Blokdoctor on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:55 am

    Fallenangel wrote:
    So my entire point is wrong? Confused
    Sorry. Forgot to delete the rest of the quote.

    Personally, I think the TIE/ln is just as good if not better than the Alpha-3, and if you bring the TIE/in into the discussion, the primary TIE starfighters of the Galactic Civil War are better than their Clone Wars predecessors. As for the Alpha-3's with shields and hyperdrives, I'm fairly certain those were specialized versions, so it wouldn't be fair to compare them to the standard TIE/ln. If you compare them to TIEs built to include shields and hyperdrives, such as the TIE x1, then I think the TIE version comes out on top again.


    _________________
    ~Blokdoctor
    Spokesperson of radicalBricks and Brickdoctor
    avatar
    Triangle Man
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2011-08-09
    Location : Ireland

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Triangle Man on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:19 am

    Fallenangel wrote:
    Furthermore, The Empire adopted a government run by fear rather than the more democratic process of the Old Republic.

    They are evidence of a intimidating military, there is no evidence in the saga for the military brass controlling the Empire, there is still an Imperial Senate, then it was replaced by the Governors of systems, not military leaders. Tarkin does say that fear will keep the local systems in check, but this is more likely to refer to this fear stopping them join the rebellion, the atchual military would be unsuitable to run a planet.
    avatar
    Fallenangel
    Reference Moderator
    Reference Moderator

    Posts : 160
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : 미국

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Fallenangel on Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:28 pm

    It appears that my conception of the Star Wars universe is somewhat flawed... Laughing But it's still an interesting discussion.

    Blokdoctor wrote:
    Personally, I think the TIE/ln is just as good if not better than the Alpha-3, and if you bring the TIE/in into the discussion, the primary TIE starfighters of the Galactic Civil War are better than their Clone Wars predecessors. As for the Alpha-3's with shields and hyperdrives, I'm fairly certain those were specialized versions, so it wouldn't be fair to compare them to the standard TIE/ln. If you compare them to TIEs built to include shields and hyperdrives, such as the TIE x1, then I think the TIE version comes out on top again.

    I suppose so. My initial focus was on the fact that while Imperial craft may have been of a less effective nature (though, as you have mentioned, they are obviously not) their primary purpose (in the story) is to be symbols of Imperial power and use that fear to keep the systems in line.

    Triangle Man wrote:
    They are evidence of a intimidating military, there is no evidence in the saga for the military brass controlling the Empire, there is still an Imperial Senate, then it was replaced by the Governors of systems, not military leaders. Tarkin does say that fear will keep the local systems in check, but this is more likely to refer to this fear stopping them join the rebellion, the atchual military would be unsuitable to run a planet.

    I guess what I mean is not so much the military controlling the ruling body but rather a government which stresses the use of military to maintain order (in the fashion of the German National Socialists with which the Galactic Empire shares parallels). But seeing as the individual governments of most systems were left alone, as you said, I would agree that this increased "nationalism" was more to prevent heresy than anything else.


    Last edited by Fallenangel on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Blokdoctor
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 22
    Join date : 2011-03-28
    Location : Qo'noS

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Blokdoctor on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:08 pm

    Fallenangel wrote:
    My initial focus was on the fact that while Imperial craft may have been of a less effective nature (though, as you have mentioned, they are obviously not) their primry purpose (in the story) is to be symbols of Imperial power and use that fear to keep the systems in line.
    Funny, I thought exactly the opposite. In the movies, these craft all fight. There is no mention of intimidation. The TIE/lns, TIE/ins, and TIE x1s engage in dogfights, the Star Destroyers capture (or attempt to capture) or fire upon enemy ships (or both). The Death Stars destroy big things. And the AT-ATs and AT-STs attack enemy ground units. The intimidation factor mostly appears in the EU. For the most part, masses of Imperial units (Blizzard Force, the Endor Sector Fleet, both Death Stars, the 501st Legion) are attacked by Rebel forces, who don't retreat. (unless you count the Battle of Hoth, but in that case, they'd already decided to retreat before seeing the AT-ATs) Any time the Rebels mention retreating because of Imperial units (such as Ackbar's call for retreat during the Battle of Endor), it's a sensible decision. (the cruisers really can't repel the Death Star's superlaser, no matter how intimidating it might be)


    _________________
    ~Blokdoctor
    Spokesperson of radicalBricks and Brickdoctor
    avatar
    Triangle Man
    Brick Fiddler
    Brick Fiddler

    Posts : 19
    Join date : 2011-08-09
    Location : Ireland

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Triangle Man on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:39 pm

    Is they any way to mesh the battle of Coruscant in with the Battle of Endor? This is in terms of the number of capital ships and the firing ranges and the combat distances. It would seem that Endor was a much smaller battle than Coruscant but they was a lot more at stake in Endor.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Star Wars

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:04 pm